Spawn Kill - Agree to Disagree 06: Children and Video Games

Posted by Dana "Heart1lly" Russo on April 21st, 2010

Recently I read an interview on WoW.com with a mother of a child that has Asperger’s Syndrome. She talked about how she allowed her 8-year-old son to play the popular MMORPG World of Warcraft for 30 minutes in the evening as long as he didn’t interact or chat with anyone he didn’t know. In an MMORPG, not interacting with others takes away most of the intent of playing the game in the first place, and the game’s ESRB rating is Teen. Why on earth would he want to play the game in the first place, and why would his mother want to spend $15 a month for only part of the experience?

Children are no strangers to online games, whether they are playing them on Xbox Live or in an MMORPG. ESRB ratings are in place so that parents can make informed decisions for their children and decide whether or not they are allowed to play. Some parents have decided that yes, their 9-year-old is ready to play games such as God of War 3, which has a mature rating. It isn’t my business to tell someone what their child can and cannot play. That’s their job. But what about children in online games such as World of Warcraft and Halo 3 ? As an adult, I pay for my own Xbox Live membership and prefer to play with other adults.

I certainly do not have anything against children, but I do feel uncomfortable with playing a violent game with someone under the age of 16. First off, they don’t always understand proper online etiquette, though this can be said for adults as well. Trash talking occurs no matter what age, but when someone 20 years younger than you starts name calling, it tends to put a bitter taste in the mouth. It also leads you to wonder what kind of parents that child has. Didn’t they teach them any better? How about running an otherwise successful guild, only to have parents blow up on you for not allowing their 10-year-old kids to join?

The ESRB is there to guide, not to act as a law, though depending on where you live you might not be able to purchase a game with a specific rating unless you have a parent with you or until you reach a certain age. I’ve had several instances where grouping with a bunch of children led to having to censor party chat during a dungeon run in an MMORPG. I’ve seen parents chastise someone for their bad language in guild chat because a child was present, but they won’t take into consideration that the game was targeted for a certain audience of a certain age.

It’s my personal belief that children should have to heed the ESRB when it comes to online games, though how you would actually enforce that I haven’t the slightest idea. People will find ways around anything if they want to do something badly enough. I don’t have any kids yet, but if I did I wouldn’t feel comfortable with them chatting up a stranger on the internet. On the other hand, as an adult I don’t necessarily want to play with children when the ESRB specifically states the game is meant for teen or mature audiences.

Which side of the fence do you fall on? What do you think about children playing online video games that are meant for older audiences?

Opinions. Everyone’s got ‘em. Especially the staff of Spawn Kill. And we know every single one of you wants to share your own as well. So we’ve put together a way that you can give us your two cents — you know, other than leaving a comment or getting in touch with us in some other manner. Every Wednesday, we’ll be bringing you a hot topic that’s been cracked wide open for discussion. Your job is to load up and deliver your best opinions on the subject at hand in Spawn Kill’s Agree to Disagree column.

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This entry was posted on Wednesday, April 21st, 2010 at 2:47 pm and is filed under Agree to Disagree, Editorials. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

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  • JMoney
    To tell you the truth I don't understand why this article is talking about ESRB and online gaming. I am not sure about WOW, other MMORPG or games like Halo because I own a Wii and don't play MMORPGs but the ESRB is responsible for rating a games content and not the interactions within those games. Most games even state that the online interactions are not rated. I know that you are trying to correlate the rating of a game with the age of the people playing that game but a rating does not reflect what age a person is that you are talking to online. When in doubt, just be polite. Anyways, the only reason I like the ESRB ratings is to get a general gauge of the violent content in a game. My 10 year old step son is currently playing games like The Conduit and Monster Hunter. I have even let him dip his feet into some Resident Evil and Dead Space. He is currently looking forward to getting Red Steel 2. The only game his is absolutely barred from (right now) is Madworld.
  • Boox
    Personally I barely play multiplayers just like my teacher that used it as an example to teach the class. he has 360 as well don't want to pay for xbox live to have a kid say HEADSHOT BITCH
  • Boox
    so they would let him get it*
  • Boox
    they already enforce the rating at stores but parents buy it for them so they are ok with their kids playing games that are out of their age. I went to a EA playtest and while I am old enough to get M rated games a kid wanted Dantes Inferno and had to get his dad to talk to the EA guy so they would he could get it and even with him warning him with what is in Dantes Inferno he said he "educates" him about it
  • Dana Russo-Harris
    I also want to bring up an example of my own, with a game that was actually designed for children - Viva Pinata: Trouble in Paradise.

    Two years ago I hopped onto Xbox Live with a friend of mine so that we could garden together. Things were going well, until we both realized that we weren't in a private party. In fact, we couldn't make a private garden together and had to deal with random people popping into our voice chat and our garden. For a time, it was okay. They were small children, and we were two women who are of age to start havin' some babies, so we thought, "Awww, a little girl wants to help us with a garden! Okay!"
    It was a fine until a guy that sounded to be in his twenties popped in. He seemed pretty nice. He asked if we wanted some help with our garden, and we got swept up into whole fun of gardening with strangers. They seemed so nice, and it was Viva Pinata - no one would trash talk in Viva Pinata.
    Well, even adults can be extremely naive. About an hour later that "nice" 20-something year old guy started smashing ALL of our pinatas and tore down all of our plants and then left without a word. He was gone. We all left him negative feedback of course, but we were all reeling in a bit of shock. Who the crap acts like that on VIVA PINATA?!
    Since then, they've patched the game so that you can have private gardening sessions (I'm pretty sure, at least), but it left me with such a bitter taste in my mouth that I never went back to try it. I just stick to one-player gardening from now one. The little girl that was in the party with us was also appalled by the behavior and got pretty vocally upset. We tried to calm her down and reassure her that it was okay, it was just a garden, but that wasn't really the point. She had witnessed someone that seemed okay turn into someone that was definitely NOT okay.
    Some kids can take that kind of behavior, for others it might be a bit much.
  • CuatroChihuahuas
    Some people obviously have no life if that's how they get their jollies... :( I have to confess that I haven't done much online multiplayer, mostly because I don't play a lot of the games that have that option, so Monster Hunter Tri will be my first real foray into online gaming, ironically... it'll be interesting to see how that community is, esp since it's Wii.
  • DC Stewart
    In my opinion every person who plays video games throughout their life should have to go through the same transitions I did. You start out with NES games until you're in 10, then you transition to SNES games, then in high school you get to play PS1 games for the first 2 years and PS2 for the latter 2, then once you hit college its free for all. Keeps everything nice and censored and also gives kids a sense of gaming history.
  • Mike
    For every kid who is rude down the mic there's probably 10 who are generally polite or just don't talk, the idiots just tend to be the ones who stand out.

    There's absolutely no doubt in my mind that there's more rude people 16+ out there on there is 16- (although I guess that's basic maths, lol), I'm 18 myself and played online since I was 13, I do have and have had since then 15 and 18 rated games but my parents know me well and have brought me up well enough, they understand that I'm ok with these things and I myself am very self-aware.

    I don't think it's particularly bad for someone a bit younger than the age rating hearing adult language, if they've had a decent upbringing and the parent has bought that game understandaing te$h child is ok with it, the kid will no it's worng for the most part.

    If I had children I'd honestly prefer my kids playing MW2 than watching Disney channel crap like Hannah Montana or Jonas Brothers.
  • Nathan Evans
    Excellent topic discussion, and one that every parent should have with their underage children before they decide to hop online and into the scary world of online gaming. But while we can all agree (or agree to disagree, if that's the case) on whether underage children should even be allowed to play M-rated games online, there's one area that has me thinking of the consequences.

    Just last month 9 students were charged in bullying a teenage girl ruthlessly, and despite her parents claims the school was knowledgeable about the bullying, they continued. The girl took her own life, and now those 'responsible' (I'm being objective about this) are charged in connection with her death. This was offline.

    In 2008 a Missouri mom assumed the role of an underage boy, only to befriend - and subsequently bully without mercy - a 13-year old girl using MySpace. As with the bullied girl in Boston, the teenager would go on to commit suicide. This case led the state to change their cyber-bullying laws. This happened online.

    Anyone who's ever logged onto Xbox Live, PSN, or any other voice-enabled online gaming service (the jury's still out on WiiSpeak) can tell you the veritable landmine of insults, verbal attacks, racism, and other dregs of humanity that spill from the most obscene users on the service. Heck, a man in Connecticut was arrested for witness tampering just last week - by threatening the witness using Xbox Live - and those were adults. Stupidity knows no bounds, but what's to happen when the disparate facts in all these examples collide?

    How soon will it be before we see the first charges of cyber-bullying on Xbox Live, or the first case of a "Hate Crime" on PlayStation Network? Microsoft, Sony, etc, may not directly be responsible for the majority of actions that occur between players (thank goodness), but there is no anonymity when using their services, and it's only a matter of time before those who are increasingly easily offended will decide when they've had enough. Again, even those parents of supposed 'mature' children who allow their little darlings to engage in headshot fun and digital rage wars have nobody to blame when little Johnny is threatened, or little Sally receives explicit pornographic materials while playing an otherwise innocent game of Warhawk.

    Only, if recent legislative action is any indication, they WILL have someone to blame - other players - and in the poor case of young girl receiving pornography, that actually happened. Welcome to the Next Level. Ladies and gentlemen, lock up your children now, because it's a mean world out there.
  • Mike
    I think it's more about educating a child to think for themselves rather than locking them up and hiding them away from the controversies.

    I think there's obviously a point where common sense kicks in and it's just too young, I think 13 is a good age to let a kid use the internet, watch some higher rated movies and games, but people need to educate their children, build up a good level of trust and responsibility...and most of all, a parent needs to know their child's mind and make well-informed decisions.

    WE seem to be a highly reactive society, we hear of things being one way and we oppose it and run in the oppsite direction, wrapping kids up in cotton wool. The world isn't a nice place, if you do that they'll get a shock when they're responsible for themselves.

    Responsibility, trust and education is key, not just hiding everyone away thinking the world will be a nicer place.
  • Dana Russo-Harris
    Nice response, Mike. And very good response to Nathan, as well. I was still a tween when the internet first became big and accessible in people's homes. My parents were (and still are), very good parents, though in their defense in mid 90's they didn't know all that much about the internet. It was still very new for them, too.
    Unfortunately for myself, I ended up getting into things I shouldn't have. Talked to people I shouldn't have, made some mistakes that I regret now. You're right that you can't hide your children away, but I do think that children and parents should both be educated as much as possible as to what could happen on the internet. More and more kids are getting into myspace and facebook, so in a way I wish they had classes in middle schools about the dangers of the internet.
    Once you educate them, all you can do is hope for the best. After all, it's a dog-eat-dog world out there, and only the strong survive, right? That's what I think, anyway. I also happen to think that obnoxious kids that haven't been exposed to any real social skills are a burden in mature-rated games. That's my opinion, though. Not all kids are like this, of course...so if you're a mature tween or teen, I'm not going to hold anything against you.
  • TheHerp
    This is why retailers need to be fined if they sell M rated games to minors. it happens with cigs and booze why not games too? In Northern California I haven't seen too many places sell M rated games to minors but i have seen it. I've also seen a lot of places sell games like MW2 and other online shooters to parents and didn't tell them what the game is about or how the community is. They need to be more vocal about it even if it pisses people off. in terms of WOW they have a lot of censors and I would rather have my kid play WOW than any other online game. You have a lot of control to turn things on and off in terms of chat. I have little cousins who have played WOW just with their friends and most of them just like doing the random quests anyways.

    I hate playing shooters or any online game where a little kid is acting like an ass. Maybe its cause when i was growing up i didn't have the online community like there is now but still those kids need their parents to keep an eye on them or here's an idea how about not giving them a mic when they play online. With things like party chat it isn’t as big of an issue but the bigger issue is the fact that kids seem to spend more time playing video games than going outside. leads to very unhealthy kids.
  • Boox
    There are ways to bypass that get a older brother or parents to buy it for you or borrow it from someone, how can they police it? in Canada you have to show ID to buy M rated games but before it wasn't like that and thats the mixed bag with online there are always assholes out there
  • Paranerd
    Personally, I think fining stores for selling violent games would be awful! Are you comparing cigarettes and alcohol to a piece of entertainment? It would set a really bad precedent, because I would hate to hear the same thing happen with movies, books, or any other medium. Furthermore, it is not up to the government to decide what games you can and cannot play, because that would be the first step to censorship.
  • TheHerp
    I think its different from movies and books because you have such an interactive experience with it. I dont think you can compare games to other forms of entertainment like movies. Thats why i support stores being fined for selling M rated games to minors. tbh i dont think the govt will have an easy time enforcing it anyways but at least its a way to stop retailers from selling these games to children. being in direct control over the person doing the killing is far different from watching someone do it in a movie. i dont see how thats censorship when we are talking about M rated games not getting in the hands of children when theres nothing that stops people of age from purchasing it.
  • Paranerd
    I didn't say it was censorship, but it could be the first step towards it, because the government is taking control of a property that should be protected by the first amendment. Books, movies, and video games should all be protected as freedom of expression, but alcohol and cigarettes do not fall under this category.

    This is a bit old, but Stephen King wrote an article for Entertainment Weekly some years ago in which he discussed why he felt such a law would be harmful:
    http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20188502,00.html
  • TheHerp
    does porn fall into this discussion? Im not sure if they fine the stores for selling porn mags to minors but it seems like they would. Can we put M rated games in the same category as porn?
  • Paranerd
    Sex and violence are regulated differently. Most people will tell you that the M rating is equivalent to an R rated film. Plus, the sex found in M rated titles and R rated films are nowhere near as explicit as in pornography. I'm not sure what pornography laws are like, since general stores don't tend to carry that kind of material.
  • TheHerp
    Good point. nice job on the link to the EW article i remember when that came up totally forgot about it though.
  • future man
    Merely setting foot into the public arena pretty much eliminates any chance at having your expectations of a service met, aside from the most blatant and offensive violations. I was playing NetMech and Tribes toward the end of grade school, and while I can't imagine I was the most eloquent speaker in the group I played with, it seemed like I was able to find a group of people who tolerated me. I do realize however that this isn't quite the same situation, as the online realm wasn't quite as grafted onto everyday normal life at that point, and did seem like something kind of new and special, whereas kids now just know it as something that's there all of the time. I think due to that fact you're going to have kids treating online gaming much as they would a tree fort, my parents raised me to be polite and respectful, but as soon as I was out of earshot I'd say "fuck" as much as a possibly could before I had to go back home for dinner, and now that's what Live or PSN or what have you acts as.

    I think as adults the ball is really in our field. When I had a 360 I eventually just let my Live subscription drop because I didn't like the random nature inherent to the lobby system, I also found myself having to just mute everyone all the time due to a few bad apples, who usually did sound like younger kids. I don't play multiplayer games often anymore, but when I do I just use a third part voice application to talk to my buddies I'm playing with, allowing everyone in the server to call each other "faggot" and teabag each other as much as they like without me ever having to hear a word. To address the MMORPG thing, I ran into some of what you mention, and eventually found a 21 and up guild where you needed to submit actual proof of your age and the atmosphere of the guild remained an adult one, where we could have adult conversations and didn't have to censor ourselves.

    Lastly, I feel that there's a large percentage of the parents buying these videogames that don't really have a concept of the fact that their kids are playing with other people, and to what extent the interaction is. I know for a fact that I always had to dupe my folks into thinking I was playing with just a couple of close friends instead of a couple dozen random people on the internet. So really I think it's up to us to tailor our own experience to avoid these annoying situations, because they're not going away and seem to just occur more and more often as the popularity of gaming as a social medium spreads.
  • KTuck
    That's more or less why online games (I started in TFC, moved on to Counter-Strike) have traditionally had admins. No racist remarks, no hacking, nothing of the sort that would encourage lamers and discourage solid team players. I've put many hours into MW2 on PS3, and haven't yet seen anyone kicked or banned for bad behavior.

    Kids, of course, are more prone to be dicks -- I was there, I know -- but given that their parents can't or won't stop them from playing M-rated games and yelling racist remarks online, I think there ought to be someone in the game who can remove them.

    If console accounts were required to have ages as an input, then administrators could easily just ban anyone under 18 from playing a particular game. Problem solved.
  • Angel Ramos
    I disagree with children playing online games ment for older audiences. I say that as a responsible father that has a baby daughter. Our kid's minds are not ready to face, deal and understand the online gaming world as it is now. It is the same as with any IM client. How the bloody hell do you know if the typer on the other end is not a rapist, or a serial killer? I will teach my daugther the ways of the internet as she grows and will let her have access to content proper to her age group. We are the parent and we are responsible for the well being and upbringing of our children
  • Dana Russo-Harris
    Kudos for being a great parent, Angel. There aren't nearly enough parents like you out there!
  • tortacular
    I'm not a fan of kids in games that are rated M. Particularly online games because then you're adding in the whole voice communication aspect to it. That's just as likely to be damaging to them as anything that happens in the game itself, knowing the gaming community as I do.

    Good anecdotes:

    Last year playing Call of Duty: World At War. There was a six year old on the same team as my group. I should never have to hear a six year old ask "Do I have to kill the doggies?" while playing a video game.

    A few years back playing Halo 2. One player on our team wasn't moving or talking at all, for the entire game. As was the custom, we betrayed said player after they went several minutes without moving or participating in any way. After the game we were berated by a parent who was letting their four year-old play because "they like it". The parent was very upset that we would treat their young child this way. We were of course incredulous that they would late their young child play a game rated Mature.

    The lesson as always: Shitty parent is shitty.
  • Dana Russo-Harris
    You bring up some excellent examples of why I dislike kids in a teen and mature-rated games. They shouldn't be there, and YOU shouldn't have to be their babysitter or get chastised by a negligent parent.
  • Angel Ramos
    and now you tell me that you skipped your teenage year completely?
  • Paranerd
    This is a tough one. While I don't want my future kid to hear some random person shouting racist and misogynist things on the internet, he or she is just as likely to hear that stuff at school. Uncharted 2 only received a Teen rating, and the online in that game might also lead to adult conversations. Hell, in Mario Kart DS you were able to draw an avatar for you vehicle, leading me to see a lot of crudely drawn penises, breasts, and marijuana leaves among random players. This is the main reason why ESRB ratings have the "game experience may change during online play" message.
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